A Pharisee Or Not?
We have begun attending a church that instead of using grape juice for Communion uses wine for the Lord’s Supper. Now I am not a drinker but this does not bother me in the least. It has put me to thinking on this subject lately though. I was once told by someone that they would never take communion in a church that only offered wine. She proceeded to tell me that she had never had any type of alcoholic drink in her entire life and that it was just something she committed to abstaining from. This is very commendable,I completely understand her conviction to avoid alcoholic drink and applaud her on following through with her conviction. However, I have a nagging concern the more I think about this. She also told me that this was not a pride thing it is just something she committed herself to doing. The more I ponder her statements, the more I have begun to feel that it is indeed a pride thing. When we begin to put our own personal righteousness in higher importance than communing with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ at His table we have become like the Pharisees.
What are your thoughts on this????
Posted in Christianity, Sacraments
July 7th, 2007 at 1:04 am
My first thought was that it reminded me of when Peter told the Lord that he wouldn’t eat the unclean foods in the vision, because he never had. My second thought was that perhaps she is overly fearful of alcohol, like having a weak conscience.
July 7th, 2007 at 1:10 am
It made me think of them telling Jesus that he could not pick corn on the Sabbath to eat.
July 7th, 2007 at 4:05 am
What life is then to a man without wine? For it was made to make men glad.
Ecclesiasticus, 27
July 7th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
What if you are an alcoholic?
I think dinner should be pleasant and peaceful, not a test of will. Are contention and testing of wills signs of hostility?
I would rather eat in love with others, not with judgement.
July 7th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I am not talking about someone who is an alcoholic, I am talking about someone’s self proclaimed “righteous act” coming between them and communing with God. And we are always being tested with our wills, we are to live according to the will of God not our own wills.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:27 am
Jesus chose His first miracle to be turning water into wine, showing that it was very appropriate as a part of celebration, communion, and feasting. So then why should we suggest that we are “holier” than Christ by abstaining from something He himself did not abstain from? Would He not then have turned the water into grape juice?
As far as causing another brother to stumble, if someone in the congregation had a problem with alcoholism, then they should definitely discuss that issue with their pastor/elder. But norms are not dictated by the exception.
Good discussion.
July 9th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Stephanie~
You posted “But norms are not dictated by the exception.”
This is so true and a concept people today do not seem to understand!
July 9th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Well, consider this: Jesus ate meat, and I know the apostles ate meat… but in 1 Corinthians 8 there is mention of those who do not eat meat for “conscience’s sake.” These brothers believed that eating meat was sinful. The context says that the abstinence of meat was that meat was often offered to idols before consumption.
It really all goes back to love, not “knowledge.” Doesn’t the scripture say that food does not commend us to God? But “Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.”
And remember in Jeremiah, where God commends the Rechabites, who made a vow never to drink wine or live in houses. God commended them for keeping their vow, not for “eating right.” Were the Rachabites proud of their stance? It doesn’t say. But they kept their vow, and that is what God commended them for. He didn’t explain them that drinking wine was OK and not to worry about it.
I drink wine, but I defer to those who may have weak consciences about it. Paul advised Timothy to drink wine, and wine was a crucial part of Israeli life in the time of Jesus. And Jesus said He would drink it with us at the Marriage Supper. It’s a sticky issue, but is goes back to the intent of the heart. And militant abstinence from wine does not necessarily mean someone is proud.
As far as the pride issue, if someone is performing “works” to make them feel more righteous, well, how can they be a true Christian? Isn’t being a servant of Christ all about trusting in His work for righteousness? All one can do is explain these things to such a person, like Aquila and Priscilla did to Apollos, and pray that God shed revelation on their heart.
But it does go back to love. Are we doing the things we do out of love for Christ, and the brethren? There is far too much individuality in the Church today. Let us beware of becoming those whose “love has grown cold.”
July 9th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
You make some good points mrs mecomber and I agree with many of them.
How ever, I see a marked difference when it comes to “being a stumbling block and holding to ones vows, shall we say” Scripture also says it is better not to vow than to vow and break it.
My main point here is that it is not simply what we eat and drink on own, but it is the Lord’s supper a time of spiritual communion with God. When something we on our own vow and it then comes to whether or not we keep what we have determined to be right verses or interferring our communing with God.
I totally agree with there being far too much individuality in the Church today and I have blogged on that recently as well.
http://mamaarcher.blogspot.com/2007/06/relationship-verses-religion.html
July 9th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
You make a good point, but I still don’t quite understand how drinking/not drinking wine interferes with communing with God?
I suppose if a body of believers prefers to drink wine at communion, and a member has vowed not to drink, either that person finds another body w/similar convictions or the body defers to that member by not offering that member wine.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
that is my point right there, is if the church only offers wine and you have someone who refuses to “take communion” communing with God because the church uses wine instead of grape juice.
July 10th, 2007 at 3:39 am
Our Lord’s Son drank wine with his disciples at the Last Supper. He also turned water into wine at a wedding, to share with friends and neighbours. I believe that he was, yet again, showing us the way in the wisdom of responsible, moderate drinking. Who are we to condemn something which Jesus himself instituted – the sharing of wine in worship.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
I sense a lot of self righteousness, and not just in the woman who refuses to drink wine.
Do you feel cannabilism is therefore condoned?
The Bible is a guide, written by men with opinions. Why is there only one way?
August 2nd, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Doesn’t the church use low-alcohol wine? That’s what the Catholic & the Episcopalian denominations use (at least that’s what my mom says about the latter, I personally do not partake in communion when I visit her church for theological reasons).
The Bible condemns *drunkenness* in many places but clearly wine is celebrated in many other passages. A small amount of low-alcohol communion wine is not going to make an adult intoxicated.
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:19 am
an alcoholic cannot have any alcohol at all, in any form.
Jesus never turned away anyone from his table. Why should we? Why all these rules/regulations/tests of committment?
August 3rd, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Follow-Up Discussion to the post is here
Follow-Up
Please post continuing comments there.